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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:44 pm 
Since I don't think I ever said: Agnostic. |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:02 pm
jack_stripes wrote: conundrum66 wrote: So are you saying that you only follow the words of Jesus because he was the son of God? You wouldn't live your life like you would now without this fact? ueah, i dont see why athiests even bother with rules, and stuff...it just doesnt make sense. and another thing...i greatly dislike science. GODBLESS -NiQ At first I thought you were being sarcastic, but now I realize you were serious and I'm a little worried with humanity that 2 people here have taken what I said like that. When I asked those questions I expected people to disagree; it seems almost rhetorical to me. I guess I was wrong. |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:04 pm
I'm an atheist. It sounds as if some of you question why an atheist would even bother being good if they have no higher power to answer to, so let me try to clarify it from my perspective. There are many reasons. One would be that it is simply easier to be a good person than a bad person. I don't have some set of rules to follow or tradition to keep up, but if I do something that I know disappoints, saddens, or angers another person then I have to live with that and think about it. That's enough for me. If your only reason for being good is because of god's will, jesus's teachings, or fear of damnation then I think it's important you evaluate why it is that you do things. If there were no threat of divine punishment would you still be a moral person? I'm not saying that those aren't good reasons, whatever gets the job done, but if there were a god do you think he'd be happier if you were a good person because you wanted to be or just because you were afraid not to be. I'm not attacking faith or anything like that if you read that in this post. I'm just trying to clarify that the absence of god does not equal a lack of morality. Also, the simple presence of god most certainly does not equal morality. Look at all the awful things done in the name of religion or by supposed religious people. No generalizations are fair. A christian, a muslim, an atheist, wiccan, and jew can all be just as moral and good or corrupt and evil as each other I think. Anyway, I hope this clarifies the atheist question for some. |
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004 | Posts: 2249 | Location: Kansas City, MO
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:28 pm
Yeah, thats what I was trying to get people to see using the Socratic method, but failed miserably. Or maybe they actually think that. Whatever. |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:34 pm
Oh my gosh. I am more confused than ever. Maybe I am an aethiest? I don't know! My mom always placed such a horrible stigma to aethiests... she would disown me. 
Please ignore me. I have personal problems in this area. I am just going through a stage or something. Everyone does I suppose. Everything Robbie said I basically agree with. I nodded throughout the entire post. Everyone should just use good judgement. If God DIDN'T exist would you still be a good person? Or would you kill your enemies- because there is no eternal damnation to fear? This is so not my xanga. What am I thinking??!! _________________ Jamie (the female version) |
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003 | Posts: 2528 | Location: Austin, TX
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:12 pm
robbie wrote: ................etc.... There isn't even one kind of "mormon", but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is what I"m talking about. Oh, and they believe that all of their church members are saints, not just the really good ones. again i will say, this is not me debating the religions... just trying to clarify a few points and misconceptions. If any mormons here see an error in what I've said then maybe you can correct me (isn't proper knowledge of other religions a great way to test your own beliefs and alignments anyway?). Like I said, this info is just from what I've learned growing up with these kids. p.s. This site is one of the funniest and telling site about mormon youth ever... if you know some mormon kids anyway http://icantimmormon.com/ I think you pretty much have your facts all the way together, Robbie. You have really impressed me with your posts. No offence to others but it does help to have at one time had some sort of direct contact with the religion. Mormonism seems to be one of the most misunderstand and mis-quoted religions out there. Your more recent post is very interesting and I think I'll work on formulating a post about what I think about that, from a religious stand-point, later on (right now I really need to focus on writing my education editorial. ahhh). ps. That website is very funny to me. That is very much the mid-western Mormon culture it seems. Sort of foreign (and sometimes annoying), to me. But it is hilarious to hear about and poke fun of. I had honestly never heard the term "virgin lips" and DTR until my brother started going to college in Utah. However I would make fun of my cousins all the time for saying cheesy things like "oh my heck!" edit: haha just noticed "I've upped my standards...SO UP YOURS". _________________ -Brooke |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2004 | Posts: 1141 | Location: Utah/Hawaii
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:50 pm
ok, I want to apologize for my last comment, not the content, but the way I presented it. It was late and I was a little ungracious. However I want to inquire of the mormons some other things I know. I see that there are mormons here so perhaps you can verify this things that I have found about your religion. 1) God the Father was a man and has a wife called the "heavenly mother", who became a god. He has a physical body 2) God the Father had sex with Mary to make Jesus 3) No trinity 4) Jesus is a separate god 5) Jesus was married 6) Jesus death on the cross does not provide full atonement for all sin, but does provide everyone with resurrection, therefore, resurrected by grace, saved by works. 7) worthy men may one day become gods Any of you who are able to clarify about the mormon (latter day saint) religion, quote the peace you are clarifying. ty, God bless. I don't mean to pick on you guys or anything, just to discuss this. _________________ hmmm.... |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:36 am
robbie wrote: I'm an atheist. It sounds as if some of you question why an atheist would even bother being good if they have no higher power to answer to, so let me try to clarify it from my perspective. There are many reasons. One would be that it is simply easier to be a good person than a bad person. I don't have some set of rules to follow or tradition to keep up, but if I do something that I know disappoints, saddens, or angers another person then I have to live with that and think about it. That's enough for me. If your only reason for being good is because of god's will, jesus's teachings, or fear of damnation then I think it's important you evaluate why it is that you do things. If there were no threat of divine punishment would you still be a moral person? I'm not saying that those aren't good reasons, whatever gets the job done, but if there were a god do you think he'd be happier if you were a good person because you wanted to be or just because you were afraid not to be.
I'm not attacking faith or anything like that if you read that in this post. I'm just trying to clarify that the absence of god does not equal a lack of morality. Also, the simple presence of god most certainly does not equal morality. Look at all the awful things done in the name of religion or by supposed religious people. No generalizations are fair. A christian, a muslim, an atheist, wiccan, and jew can all be just as moral and good or corrupt and evil as each other I think. Anyway, I hope this clarifies the atheist question for some. Just to clarify something...Christians with a true heart for God don't try to be a "good person" out of fear, they do it out of love for God. If we truely love God, then we will strive to be what he wants us to be...not to avoid punishment, but to please our creator. On a side note, I want to thank you, Robbie...your posts are always insightful and educated. You haven't condemn or talked down to anyone else in this thread, and my respect for you has grown because of it. |
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Joined: 04 Oct 2004 | Posts: 2264 | Location: Lost and Found
Last edited by breauxman on Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:37 am
At this point, although I could answer all of your questions, I feel like I don't want to turn the focus of this thread completely to Mormonism and hyper-focus on and pull apart doctrinal things related to this religion. Sorry, it could just come to the point where it is slightly unsettling. Respectfully I would ask that if you really do have a ton of questions you visit mormon.org (an official church sponsored site) they have a wonderful data-base of questions and answers. Or perhaps I could PM you answers, as best as I can and feel comfortable addressing, if you would really like to hear from me directly... I just want to broaden the focus, and perhaps go into more of the things Robbie has brought up (which a larger number of people can answer). Or general topics that more people can relate to and benefit from discussing. _________________ -Brooke |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:23 am
robbie wrote: I'm an atheist. It sounds as if some of you question why an atheist would even bother being good if they have no higher power to answer to, so let me try to clarify it from my perspective. There are many reasons. One would be that it is simply easier to be a good person than a bad person. I don't have some set of rules to follow or tradition to keep up, but if I do something that I know disappoints, saddens, or angers another person then I have to live with that and think about it. That's enough for me. If your only reason for being good is because of god's will, jesus's teachings, or fear of damnation then I think it's important you evaluate why it is that you do things. If there were no threat of divine punishment would you still be a moral person? I'm not saying that those aren't good reasons, whatever gets the job done, but if there were a god do you think he'd be happier if you were a good person because you wanted to be or just because you were afraid not to be.
I'm not attacking faith or anything like that if you read that in this post. I'm just trying to clarify that the absence of god does not equal a lack of morality. Also, the simple presence of god most certainly does not equal morality. Look at all the awful things done in the name of religion or by supposed religious people. No generalizations are fair. A christian, a muslim, an atheist, wiccan, and jew can all be just as moral and good or corrupt and evil as each other I think. Anyway, I hope this clarifies the atheist question for some. I guess it is not a question of whether or not I would be good without God, it is a question of whether or not I COULD be good without God. To me it is not a question of morality but hope. I have no hope that mankind can make themselves good. Some would argue that our own wisdom and genius can solve the problems of mankind. I believe mankind to be inherently flawed. If we are given a choice we cannot consistently choose to love, because we are inherently selfish. Look at 4 year olds. We have to be taught to not just take what we want. We have to be taught to think of others. It is my experience that as much compassion as I felt for others prior to knowing Christ I could not bring myself to help them beyond what was comfortable for me. I could not bring myself to consistently put others first. An atheist can be a good person. An atheist can be a really stinking good person. They are capable of being better than any "Christian". They are capable of an enormous amount of love. But in the end, like me, they will fail. Something will happen and their inner 4 year old will call the shots. They will fail to love someone they could've loved. That is the condition of my heart. I don't fear the wrath of God, at least not the way it might be understood by a non-believer. I fear the truth of God. That he is absolutely Just and absolutely Love and absolutely Holy. If he truly loves you and I, and he truly can't be with imperfection without destroying it, then he can't be with me if I've hurt you. But I think what motivates me is not this desire of "I have to get to heaven" or "I have to be right and avoid pain" because that is just my 4 year old talking. I am motivated by the idea that the only way to heal hurt and create peace and joy is to have the intervention of something divine that enables human beings to be more than what they are. If I gave up this hope I suppose I wouldn't be a bad person. I'd follow most laws and donate to the poor and stuff like that, but I wouldn't choose to love people who hurt me and I wouldn't feel like I had anything to live for other than me and mine. To be honest I don't have a lot of faith and this is a line I walk constantly but I've also experienced a beautiful life since choosing to believe this stuff, and I have an ever-growing sense of hope that it is true. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:2-3 "If anyone imagines that he knows something , he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God." or in another translation "Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't know very much. But the person who loves God is the one God knows and cares for." I feel very strongly that I can't know enough about anything, especially spiritual matters. But I have put my hope in loving God first that all else would fall into place. I could talk all day about where morality comes from, but I choose to focus on where hope comes from. Umm...also, thanks everyone for talking about this stuff and not getting political or angry. It's really fun. _________________ hi, my name is dan, a librariman i am anyone can play guitar... |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:34 am
I am so glad that the debating in this thread hasn't been mindless babble but well thought out posts. Very good job people. Everywhere else I go, the debates are always two unintelligient people just bashing the other's religion like they don't deserve the same amount of respect. _________________ Thistledown |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005 | Posts: 4657 | Location: Melton Mowbray Pork Pie
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:22 am
Vegetable wrote: *pushes the 'Security' button under the desk several times*
to answer the question, I´m not religious. -=Secretly had the button removed and replaced with a peice of gum on a peice of cardboard with spring-loaded action.=- Hatcha! Got ya!!! _________________ Dear Eisley- I love you all truely and sincerely. I bought your album "Room Noises" today and fell in deeper love with you. If you ever want anything from me, whether it be a friendly person to talk to, or a hand to hold, or a band to play in a concert for you. I will be glad to do so. Your Sincere friend, Loren |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:24 am
Existentialist. _________________ Dear Eisley- I love you all truely and sincerely. I bought your album "Room Noises" today and fell in deeper love with you. If you ever want anything from me, whether it be a friendly person to talk to, or a hand to hold, or a band to play in a concert for you. I will be glad to do so. Your Sincere friend, Loren |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:18 am
guitarfreak217 wrote: I am so glad that the debating in this thread hasn't been mindless babble but well thought out posts. Very good job people. Everywhere else I go, the debates are always two unintelligient people just bashing the other's religion like they don't deserve the same amount of respect. For reals people. I am encouraged. This thread is much tamer than some of the threads in a Christian forum I am part of...and they only talk about stuff within Christianity! Anyways, kudos to everyone for keeping it proffesional. _________________ "Just because God delays, doesn't mean that God denies" -Tommy Lasorda |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005 | Posts: 22 | Location: Colorado
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:02 am
I am protestant _________________ ROCK ME AMADEUS!! "I was on tour in the United States back in '89 and we did a show in Cincinnati. During that show I shouted out, 'It's great to be in Cincinnati!' That was a lie." -David Bowie |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005 | Posts: 649 | Location: Gotham City, Tennessee
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Laughing City Forum Index -> General -> What religion/faith are you?
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