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 Post subject: Chauntelle's Guitar PlayingPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:02 pm 
[Edit] I feel that I didn't adequately express myself when I started this post, and for that I apologize. But here's the original post, down to the last [Edit], then followed by some clarifications. Now...I'm probably going to the hell flamed out of me for this, so first let me say that I think Eisley is a great band and all it's members have a lot of talent. But, looking at both Eisley tabs and tabbing it out by ear - I'm not entirely impressed (With the technical aspect - not that technical aspect is everything - if it was, I wouldn't even bother asking this.,,It's amazing how much I have to make stuff like this clear to try not to have people take major insult.) She has an incredible setup, but her chords are not that inventive, and her lead playing is nearly non-existent Okay, this is my bad...this is phrased really wrong, and it does sound like a criticism. - at least in the songs I've heard and played. [Edit] Hold with me here for a second - don't get mad quite yet. Now if you're Chauntelle, and you're reading this, I hope you're not offended - I'm not saying I'm some guitar guru or anything - I'm posting this 'cause as musicians we all have room to grow, it's what I love about music. Just personally I rarely ever use barre chords or open chords, or power chords for that matter. I'm trying to find more inventive voicings for them - so that's really what I try to look for in guitarists that I listen to. Nick Drake and Elliott Smith for fingerpicking, Jeff Buckley, John Mayer actually has some serious blues chops and new chord voicings, Steely Dan as well - I saw on their MySpace that they do list Steely Dan as an influence, but I rarely hear any guitar playing like that on their album, and I was disappointed, just little things like that. I love their songs, but I wish I could take a bit more out of them on as far as guitars go. [Edit] Someone did bring up the very valid point that simplicity is a good thing, and if it's their style, more of a sound landscape feel, that's awesome, and no matter what, they rock. And there's more on that below. Anyways, once again, my point here is to not bash Chauntelle at all - I can't really stress this enough, so please take me seriously, and if I'm wrong correct me, but I was just wondering if she's a much 'better' (technically) player than she shows on her albums - like many guitarists in many bands, and is just simplifying her playing style for the recorded album? (I haven't seen them live yet.) [Edit] I realize that if it's not, that's fine, because, like I said, the great thing about music is there are infinite possibilites to explore, right? And I'm being over-critical, and I don't mean to be, but trust me, I'm probably over-critical of my own playing as well. This is meant I guess as constructive? Rather than a criticism. I guess this stems from my guitar lessons. It's kind of what I imagine my guitar teacher, Lisa, would say - and it's not meant as an insult - it's the only way we grow and become better. She's an incredible guitarist and she's so much better than me it's not even funny, but there's nothing I like more than going to guitar lessons. I'm not offended when she tells me I could do something better, or I should learn how to do this or that, it all just makes me better. That's kind of what I feel, I guess. And Chauntelle could kick my ass at guitar, and that would be great. And if that's the case, I'd love to hear it. =D Not I'd love to hear it because I don't think she can do it. I'd love to hear it because I'd love to hear it. It would be awesome. Peace. [Edit] Oh yeah, there are some follow up posts of mine to clarify what I mean a bit more. Umm...let me just add some of that clarification here. There seems to be a lot of people who think I'm arguing that musical complexity makes a GOOD song. It doesn't. I'm not really trying to argue a point, though somewhere it turned into that. I'm just wondering. But it's probably my fault. I'm very stubborn and very quirky (musically, philosophically, and religiously) which isn't a good combination, because I tend to try to make people see things my way, and my way is generally unconventional to a point. I suppose only Chauntelle could answer. Also, I don't mean a shredding, screaming, rock solo either. In fact I don't really like rock soloes all that much. In their place and in moderation. Quote: As for songs having 'artistic' merit. That's a hard thing to judge.
I have three things I try to do in my songs - ironically they're all quotes, from 3 different places, but still, together they sum it up rather well. "I want to create something I'd like to listen to." -Kurt Cobain Yes, my songwriting is for me first. It's selfish. I personally write my songs for me and then I share them. I don't write so people will want to listen to it. I don't write so people won't want to, but that's another point entirely. Some people might call it 'selling out'. And I try to avoid that, but I also avoid that term. "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley In my signature. Basically saying your songs mean something to you, and they're a form of expression. A little more on the meaning thing: "I want to draw something that means something to someone. I want to draw blind faith, or a fading summer, you know? It's like when you go see a really great band, live, for the first time, and nobody's saying it, but everybody's thinking it - "We have something to believe in again." I want to draw that feeling. But I can't. And if I can't be great, then I don't want to ruin it. It's too important." -Payton Sawyer, One Tree Hill The one thing I took away from watching some of those shows. It means more if you can really transfer 'draw' to 'wrrite songs about'. You can write songs about blind faith and a fading summer, but try to imagine a painting of it. You end up with some symbolism and maybe some allegorical crap, but not a picture of what it actually is. Because it's impossible. It's really that search to find and draw clarity and truth. I can't really describe what the parallel to that is for songwriting, because if I could, I'd write a song about it, but it's that same feeling. I will never really find what I'm looking for, right, but in searching I feel I've learned and grown, and that's what it's all about, and that's what people should take out of songs. 3 things that I look for in songs, mine and others, to make them 'artistic'. Notice that being musically complex is nowhere in there. It goes back to my example of english. It can help, but it isn't necessary. Eisley has great songs. I was just wondering if Chauntelle is also a technical player. Which was actually answered. To paraphrase: "I don't think she's had any formal instruction." So I'm not arguing that Eisley has bad songs because they're simple, or that complexity makes a great song. In fact I really wasn't arguing anything. Just wondering. Peace. P.S. I'd like to add that I notice a lot of people use 'shredding' as a reference to what I'm saying about complexity. Shredding is very simple musically (for the most part (there are exceptions) for that whole arguement). It's all show. I hate it. It's weird, I know, but I'm quirky like that. What I really meant about her guitar playing being simple is in the chords. I mentioned lead once, but I meant chords more. Quote: You don't need to be an english major to speak english and get your point across. But having a large vocabulary and good diction helps you to express yourself with greater clarity and succinctness. And if short to the point speech isn't your thing, you can always try to confuse the hell out of people, too. It's the same way with music. Maybe you choose to say 'yes' instead of 'affirmative' (old nerd joke here), but it doesn't ever hurt to know what 'affirmative' means, right? Quote: ...instead of using barre chords all over the place, you can use different voicings of chords so they can share common tones, and stuff like that, which, while the actual notes in the chords are the same, compositionally it's more interesting. Quote: One thing is I think she knows her place in the band, like a bass player, or a drummer (no offense to either, but most people don't hum the bass lines to songs, but rather the melody - I'm saying she's playing guitar maybe as more of a 'foundation' player?) I guess she knows what fits best with the sounds the other members are playing. Quote: I have so much respect for self taught guitarists. Their imagination knows no bounds. One of my friends I met at college was self taught. It was always really cool playing with him, because sometimes he'd find this chord and ask me about it, and I'm like, "Oh, that's a pretty basic chord, it's a form of this ___," and other times he would have these completely unconvetional chords that just blew me away. It was a blast. I got more out of playing with him that probably an entire year of lessons. I've been taking lessons for about 4 years now and I play pretty intensively as I want to major in music and attend Berklee, so my playing up to this point has been pretty by the book. You know, scale formulas, chord formulas, playing off arpeggios and modes - stuff like that. Playing with him kind of got me started thinking out of the box, and like my name suggests, trying to be original in my playing. I'm happy I have the foundation of guitar playing I do, but now I feel that I can do my own thing, and make something completely new. =D Which is incredibly important in songwriting. I love any experimental music. Even if it isn't as catchy as maintstream, it's new. As a songwriter, that's what I want more than anything - in lyrics, instrumention, musical theory, arrangement - to be new and original. To make something new while keeping a certain level of musical fidelity. Sorry for all the quotes, but it's a pretty complex and touchy matter, apparently. Plus this is something I think about a lot, so I have a lot to say. _________________ "It's all about the wordplay." -Jason Mraz "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something to complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005 | Posts: 30 |
Last edited by LiveOriginal on Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:22 am; edited 27 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:04 pm
I respect your opinion, but I do not believe you are right. _________________ ROCK ME AMADEUS!! "I was on tour in the United States back in '89 and we did a show in Cincinnati. During that show I shouted out, 'It's great to be in Cincinnati!' That was a lie." -David Bowie |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005 | Posts: 649 | Location: Gotham City, Tennessee
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:05 pm
 ...i dont really think they are a guitar driven band..its more about the vocals i think...
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Joined: 12 Jun 2005 | Posts: 20735 |
Last edited by norad on Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:08 pm
I agree that Chauntelle does not really show off her "skills" or whatever much in the playing, but honestly I dont really think that is what Eisley is going for. Can you really hear her shreading in the middle of an eisley song? That would ruin it for me. They aren't very jazzed based either. You are kind of comparing them to musicians of a completely seperate style. Eisley is basically a pop band, for the most part. I think she is very tasteful with the chords she uses. There songs are catchy. She adds layers to them. Not necessarily difficult layers, but layers that make it sound full, and better. |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004 | Posts: 2130 | Location: varies.
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:09 pm
yeah, I think she "plays for the songs" and not to show off... simple isnt always bad. Im a drummer myself, so I'm not a guitar nazi (not saying you are, at all) but I love the stuff her and Sherri do. It sounds amazing... I dont know though, Chauntelle's leading decending guitar line in the chorus of "mr. pine" is friggin genious if you ask me... and its so simple. and I'd love to hear her do some crazy weird OK Computer or Kid A style stuff someday, but in my oppinion I dont think it fits Eisley's style right now... Just my two cents  _________________ Flutter girl killing me with her sunshine... she's so unaware that she's my melpomene. hi www.myspace.com/musicislove |
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005 | Posts: 611 | Location: rice lake, wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:09 pm
Now I'm sure you all think I'm an a$$hole, and I'm not trying to be, I mean, I THINK she's a much better guitar player than what I've heard, but since all I've heard has been pretty low key, I was just looking for someone to either say she totally rocks out at shows, or could name some songs for me or something. _________________ "It's all about the wordplay." -Jason Mraz "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something to complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005 | Posts: 30 |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:10 pm
LiveOriginal wrote: Now I'm sure you all think I'm an a$$hole, and I'm not trying to be, I mean, I THINK she's a much better guitar player than what I've heard, but since all I've heard has been pretty low key, I was just looking for someone to either say she totally rocks out at shows, or could name some songs for me or something. Mr. Pine. A maz ing.  _________________ Flutter girl killing me with her sunshine... she's so unaware that she's my melpomene. hi www.myspace.com/musicislove |
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005 | Posts: 611 | Location: rice lake, wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:10 pm
I don't know anything about guitars but I sure do love how she rocks out when she's playing hers. As far as guitar parts, my favorite is the ending to Head Against the Sky. I can be found bobbing my head up and down screaming yeah yeah this rocks like Homer Simpson. _________________ and iiiii can't live without you and i don't want to. i've done that all my life up til now. 
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004 | Posts: 1152 | Location: San Benito, Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:12 pm
Okay, yeah, I can see that. But pop doesn't have to be simple. I love indie pop, and just because a chord is voiced in a different voicing doesn't make it jazz or anything else, just more interesting and colorful. One thing is I think she knows her place in the band, like a bass player, or a drummer (no offense to either, but most people don't hum the bass lines to songs, but rather the melody - I'm saying she's playing guitar maybe as more of a 'foundation' player?) I guess she knows what fits best with the sounds the other members are playing. I'm not saying she SHOULD shred in the middle of a song. I hate things like metal soloes, and thrash and stuff, personally, and my lead playing is pretty laid back most of the time. But instead of using barre chords all over the place, you can use different voicings of chords so they can share common tones, and stuff like that, which, while the actual notes in the chords are the same, compositionally it's more interesting. Peace. _________________ "It's all about the wordplay." -Jason Mraz "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something to complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005 | Posts: 30 |
Last edited by LiveOriginal on Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:13 pm
*** Gregor, or somebody... please fix the whole delete feature thing?
Merci beacoup! |
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Joined: 05 Apr 2005 | Posts: 472 | Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Last edited by brian_nguyen on Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:04 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:18 pm
Quote: Eisley is a band. They have Chauntelle, Sherri, Stacy, Weston, and Jon. True, and I mentioned that in my last post, but just because it's a band - playing well together isn't the only thing that matters. It does matter, and it would be wrong to stress 'tasteful' guitar playing over it, but at the same time, playing well together (which they do) doesn't make up for simple guitar playing. Now, I feel the need to say, since this IS an Eisley site, that simple isn't bad, at all, and sometimes simplicity works wonders - but it's being able to play all different styles and at different levels of complexity that's cool - and then you can choose to play simply. Which I think is what she's doing, and that's the point of this topic. Peace. _________________ "It's all about the wordplay." -Jason Mraz "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something to complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005 | Posts: 30 |
Last edited by LiveOriginal on Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:19 pm
why do you people always have to post the most negative things about the band. keep your negative thoughts to yourself, we don't care. _________________ ROCK ME AMADEUS!! "I was on tour in the United States back in '89 and we did a show in Cincinnati. During that show I shouted out, 'It's great to be in Cincinnati!' That was a lie." -David Bowie |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005 | Posts: 649 | Location: Gotham City, Tennessee
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:21 pm
Quote: keep your negative thoughts to yourself, we don't care. Oh, come on, how many times can I stress I'm not trying to imply anything negative? I expected this, I guess, so nevermind. Thank you to people who suggested songs. _________________ "It's all about the wordplay." -Jason Mraz "When all of this music sounds like something you want to say, then it will have been of all worth, ever. You will become something to complete, unto yourself, present and unique." -Jeff Buckley |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005 | Posts: 30 |
Last edited by LiveOriginal on Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:26 pm
Chauntelle stated in her old Eisley.com bio that she tries to avoid flashy solos and stick to instrumental work that complements the melody of the song. She's an excellent guitarist, but as many in this thread have already pointed out, there's just not a lot of room in Eisley songs for a face-melting solo. Much of what she does is meant to ad emphasis to what's already present--"Telescope Eyes" is a great example. However, I happen to think the guitar bit of the outro to "Marvelous Things" is one of the most amazing and appropriate "solos" in history. She hasn't really been conventionally trained (as far as I know), so she probably has some room to grow. She's already got an amazing foundation--her taste in guitars and equipment is extremely discriminating, and she's got an excellent ear. The "muted" quality of most of the guitar work in Eisley songs has more to do with the nature of Eisley's music than it does with any potential limitations on Chauntelle's part. That having been said, I totally understand where you're coming from as a musician, and I apologize for all the people who are taking your comments the wrong way. Welcome to the forum! Sometimes the best way to introduce yourself is with a little controversy.  _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:27 pm
I've heard it said that a good guitarist sounds good to people who don't know anything about guitar. I think she accomplishes this. Mind you, I play guitar. And bass. And piano. And drums. Golly. But anyway. I think her writing style is based to fit the subtle simplicity of well-crafted artistic rock, which is the best description of what Eisley's music sounds like, in my opinion. Just like, say, Starflyer 59. Nothing complex, just amazing and moving soundscapes. My three and a half sense. Um, cents. Cents. |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2005 | Posts: 167 | Location: Alabama
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