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 Post subject: It Doesn't Add Up: Label Pressure? (semi-attn: boyd)Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:15 pm 
I have been a fan of Eisley's for quite some time. The minute I heard the first beautiful sounds of the Laughing City EP I was drawn to the songwriting of the sisters Dupree (with an extra soft spot for Stacy crooning) and have followed their career with different shades of intensity since. Definitely due to the new "iculture" of the 21st century which is fully embraced by the band (and dad), I feel like I've had a better glimpse into the actual lives of these songwriters than I would any other of my favourite bands. That is to say, I take note when the new Decemberists' album is heralded, Ray Bradbury is fawned over, or Radiohead is cited as the Godfather of the group. Their tastes seem somewhat similar to my own, which, in the end has me begging the question, why did the finished product (Room Noises) not sound like the band I imagined? Gone is the natural playfulness of the pre-album EPs. The slight quirks and inadequacies that to me, make an album a classic, relatable. Everything feels shellacked, like a stone polished, when perhaps that stone is meant to be craggy and rough and beautiful. I'll stop being vague and get to my examples. First off, the brutal re-recording of Telescope Eyes. Of course, the label was banking (probably moreso praying) that this would be a hit of Avril-like proportions. Sorry, but it sucked. They took a very good song (far from the band's best in reality) and tried to run it through the teen pop filter and it did not work. I guess I'm wondering, nay hoping - and I doubt I will get a definitive response - that Eisley were not fans of this and somehow went along. But if so, why did they concede? Second example, Lost at Sea remix. What a confusing piece of, erm, art? Eisley adore bands that use the album format to its fullest - it makes no sense to me that they would taint their first offering by tacking a reggae remix at the end of what is a fairy-pop album? Unless, perhaps, it signified the bad trip you could get from taking too much pixie dust? There are more examples (um, bands they tour with - totally illogical) but those are the two most glaring to me. Now, I'm gonna call Boyd out here, and not really in that accusatory of a way, because label/band tension is a delicate issue, and not appropriately blogworthy, not to mention boring to the general 17 year old audience. But Boyd, you do spin things in such a way that the band are always thrilled with the label and their ideas and vice versa. Could this possibly be true? My opinion, and I am probably way off, is that Eisley lack the confidence to stick to their vision when up against producers, A&R and label heads. From my perception, they are meek, humble and adorable people, which probably makes them some of the most genuinely, sincerely great people in the world, but makes them easily molded by money/success hungry industry types. Perhaps I have more perspective because my band was recently signed and boy oh boy are labels hard to deal with. They have ridiculous ideas of who you are supposed to be and what you are supposed to do. They will try and do ludicrous things to get you ahead without your consent (in our case they seem to think that since a huge labelmate of ours has a member who is also from Iowa we can ride their coattails, and now every press clip annoyingly details this super-lame connection). I know it can't be easy, but I just hope they know that their music a force, and they should stick to their guns and go with their guts. I have heard some garageband demos of this new record and it depending on how it was recorded out in malibu it could be completely amazing, totally blowing the doors off of everything previous. I guess I just hope they are making exactly the music they feel like making, because I think it's what every band wants and only some get. This should be a saying if it isn't already: You CAN be too talented to play by the rules. |
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Joined: 20 Aug 2003 | Posts: 2261 | Location: Ames, Iowa
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:19 pm
I was wondering this as well. Also, who insisted that some of the lyrics to Telescope Eyes be changed? What's wrong with saying, "I can't be seen with you, you freak"? I've heard worse things said on the radio. _________________ I know how I was born and I know that I have no choice. I know it may not show on the color of my skin, but I know it’s in my heart and in my soul. –Sara Quin |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2006 | Posts: 2522 | Location: Bay Area, California
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:29 pm
Which band would you rather they didn't tour with? Room Noises was an okay first effort. Sure, they messed with their sound some, and it wasn't all for the best. Hopefully they learn as they go along. |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:19 am
well, they can't really go around criticizing their label. It would be nice if they had a more indie one though. _________________ ASTER (i'll think of a clever signature someday.) |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005 | Posts: 327 | Location: Oberlin, Ohio.
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:49 am
I remember reading somewhere that any band's first album is really the producer's album... but it seemed to fit in perfectly with Room Noises. I think it's been clear from what Boyd and the band have said in the past that they didn't like RN or how the label made them change some of their old songs to become more commercial. And they did make their voices be heard in the recording of LP2, which is why they liked Richard and his creativeness and openness of new and different things. Also, I think how Weston and Stacy flying out to Malibu recently for the mixing, and how Boyd mentioned that they both had a particular feeling for their musical area (like vocals and polyphonics for Stacy and then the drums and bass for Weston), shows that they're very involved with the recording process and making sure that they are heard. If you ask me, Taking Control is the perfect example of how they felt about their next album. The band seems to be happy about what they've made... As for the touring thing, well if you think about it, if Eisley never went on tour with NFG, she might not be engaged to Chad right now and maybe some of the songs off of the new album might not have been written because she might not have had that one person she loved to have inspired her in the writing process. Or maybe Macbeth and Atticus might not have wanted to help them out because Eisley put off a indier than thou persona out there if they rejected the pop-punk bands they actually ended up touring with. To me, having Eisley on the top ten of NFG, TBS, and AVA on myspace has really attracted those bands' fans to Eisley and helped Eisley reach that millionth friend ranking. Sure those bands might not possess what we as Eisley fans might generally listen to, but their support and constant praises of Eisley seem to make more people give Eisley a try even if they aren't "mosh worthy." That's just me though. _________________ "I cannot discuss your verses; for any attempt at criticism would be foreign to me. Nothing touches a work of art so little as words of criticism." -- Rainer Maria Rilke |
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005 | Posts: 1045 | Location: Mansfield and Austin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:25 am
I think if you look at just the song writing alone on Room Noises, it stacks up well against the early eps and whatnot. I think you are being a little harsh saying that they couldn't stand up to the label. A newly signed no name band on one of the big 5 doesn't exactly have a lot of leverage in terms dealing power. Boyd made it seem like Eisley actually did fuss a lot and was very frustrated over the album. The label also failed to advertise and support the album like they had previously promised. Coincidence? I don't know. I love seeing a band's artistic vision come to fruitation, but that will never happen if they can't even make a living doing so. The production on the first album is "poppy", but I still certainly enjoy it. Regardless, Eisley seems to be holding the reins right now, which is all that matter IMO. Radiohead's first day out wasn't spectacular either. _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:31 am
For one thing, the Lost at Sea remix was axed from Room Noises (the band's doing) very late in the game... so don't judge an album by its leak you downloaded  _________________ |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003 | Posts: 1088 | Location: Somerville, MA
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:43 am
pzykotic wrote: For one thing, the Lost at Sea remix was axed from Room Noises (the band's doing) very late in the game... so don't judge an album by its leak you downloaded The Lost at Sea remix is still available right here: http://www.eisley.com/music.php So it is not just a leaked download as it is readily available right here at eisley.com |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:03 am
The remix was officially released (online, for free), but more of the level of "here's something that might be fun to listen to whilst waiting for the album." I think this is all ignoring what's going on right now. You could read in between the lines last time and tell more of what was going on. What seems to be considered deliberate deception now on the part of Boyd is more an attempt at positivity and not being sure about the ability to levy criticism toward certain players. You could tell things weren't perfect last time: Complaints about lyric changes, frustrating breaks from recording, etc. All things considered, Room Noises isn't a bad album. It's not even quite mediocre. It's just weak compared to what it could have been. So not acting like it was an offense to all recorded material isn't implausible. Few bands are going to be able to step up to that plate and hit a homer. (Especially considering their actual experience. They were hardly a new band, but not exactly experienced with so many hands in the mix. Like label and management people.) So only two albums in, to me, is not quite time to question their mettle. If No. 2 happens to go the same way in the end, maybe then ... But I don't see lines to read in between yet. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25184 | Location: East Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:09 am
TheAntrider wrote: So only two albums in, to me, is not quite time to question their mettle. If No. 2 happens to go the same way in the end, maybe then ... But I don't see lines to read in between yet. Everything seems to be pointing towards an album Eisley will be proud of. I can hardly wait until April or May. |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:40 am
Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything Luke (theenvycorps, not pzykotic) said above--except for the band intentionally glossing over their frustration and making everything seem rosy. Frustration was everywhere during the recording of Room Noises; I didn't feel like they tried to hide it at all. As for the overproduction and label influence, I can't help but feel that Eisley signed too early. They've done amazing things for themselves via word of mouth and Internet promotion in the wake of Room Noises, but that's nothing they couldn't have done without the label behind them. I truly believe that the earlier a band signs with a major (before generating buzz and gaining a large fanbase independently) the less their label will respect them and the more creative control the label will have. The best example I can give of signing at "the right time" is Brandi Carlile. She recorded two EPs and a full-length on her own before signing to Columbia. Her Portland following is immense and her independent releases sold out, along with her hometown shows. She got to produce her own major label debut, and her second album was recorded with T-Bone Burnett (!!!). She was on Rolling Stone's top ten artists to watch list (not that anyone pays attention to that, but it's nice publicity anyway) and a slew of best of 2006 lists for Brandi Carlile. She got featured in Barnes & Nobles around the country with point-of-sale giveaway CDs. Her next album isn't coming out for another three months but already the buzz is building and it's obvious her label is going to push this one hard because they know she's worth it. They've given her a tour bus and had her opening for complementary acts (Ray LaMontagne, Shawn Colvin, and others). Basically, she proved herself early on and the label respects her because of it. I don't think Eisley got that respect at first, or that they'd proven they deserved it. Sure they've been playing for about nine years, opened for Coldplay before they were officially signed, and so on, but I don't think that was enough for WB to treat them like the potential moneymakers they really are. Not a single track from Room Noises was pushed to radio, and that's criminal. "Telescope Eyes," as sucky as I agree it was, could have been a fantastic single. The same goes for "Golly Sandra," "I Wasn't Prepared," or "Marvelous Things." Somebody dropped the ball on that one, and tragically it was the ball that could have turned Eisley a profit on their first album. So yeah. In my opinion, the problems on Room Noises can almost all be chalked up to a lack of trust and respect from the label. From the sound of it, those problems will be nonexistent on LP2, and for that I'm grateful. Mistakes were made early on, but as Murder By Death put it, there's still time to start again. Second albums are for gaining momentum, getting out of debt to the label, and proving you're worth the time and effort that Eisley definitely deserve. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:55 am
TheAntrider wrote: You could read in between the lines last time and tell more of what was going on. What seems to be considered deliberate deception now on the part of Boyd is more an attempt at positivity and not being sure about the ability to levy criticism toward certain players. You could tell things weren't perfect last time: Complaints about lyric changes, frustrating breaks from recording, etc. All things considered, Room Noises isn't a bad album. It's not even quite mediocre. It's just weak compared to what it could have been. This is similar to what I was going to say, only you have been pretty concise. Mine would have been more rambly. I just really disagree with the original poster when he/she says that label problems or sound-tampering were largely ignored by eisley's camp. Fans generally regard that recording RN had its' difficult moments and that not everyone was happy with every aspect of it. Even though it wasn't what older fans would have entirely latched onto, I still bought it and loved it because I wanted the SECOND RECORD. _________________ "The artist, like the God of creation, remains within or behind or beyond or above his handiwork, invisible, refined out of existence, indifferent, paring his fingernails."(J.Joyce) |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2004 | Posts: 339 | Location: never give up and good luck will find you.
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:26 am
also some of the problem with the first album is that the fans knew basically all the songs from previous eps and from live performances and expected them to be as such. the record label has a lot of leverage, especially in that first album. its worse that the record producers can't get into eisley's heads and hear what they hear. the producers most times just try to hear what will make it a so-called "sell-able" record. thank god for richard though who gave eisley the reins to make the second album their record. _________________ Say something witty, dammit! http://kimschaefer.bandcamp.com/ http://youtube.com/kimschaefermusic |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2006 | Posts: 735 | Location: chicago
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:19 am
I think one of the main differences between now and then is management. I am blown away by how supportive Eisley's present management is. It is really nice to know that Eisley has someone on their side who is very familiar with the industry, and very respected in the industry. Labels are frequently just stupid corporations. They are made mostly of people who are trying to do their best, but the structure of a corporation isn't terribly condusive to creating good music, or even making good decisions about what to do with the music that has been created. It's nice to know that Eisley has a common sense kind of guy like Rick, who's not afraid to disagree with the label or push for Eisley's interests. He is one of the key reasons that the problems you guys are addressing affected Eisley way less on the last recording than on the first. And it will be great to know that he is looking out for them when the focus shifts from production to promotion. -Mark |
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002 | Posts: 432 | Location: Indy
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:01 am
Here's my take: The band was stuck in an apartment in LA for 4 months away from home. It was a new place, and they didn't know anyone there. I was at the studio and hung out with them a bunch (I didn't know anyone either), and I could see it dragging down on them. This was 3 years ago - it was a completely new experience to everyone involved - big city, big label, big management... and they're all humble folks from the middle of Texas. It was daunting, and to accomplish what they did with "Room Noises" is amazing. I agree with Mark 100%, management makes such a massive difference this time around. Nettwerk/DC Music (whatever it was called) didn't seem to care much for Eisley on a personal level or seem to understand what the band needed when it came to being a band new to a ginormous label and a ginormous city. Rick is the exact opposite. The band loves him and I'm pretty sure everyone who knows him loves him, and he does amazing work championing for his bands. Despite being a Yankees fan, Rob Schnapf is a gentleman and a scholar, and I honestly believe he tried to the best of his ability to lock down what Eisley needed to excel in the studio. It's hard for a producer to just jump into a situation where he's with a band he hadn't heard of 2 months before and the band themselves have never recorded at a professional studio, especially not for a length of time that kept them away from home and loved ones and sick parents (remember Kim had to have heart surgery sometime in the middle of all that mess)? Room Noises stands and will continue to stand as an an amazing album, and a stellar first album. Such is the truth for any band that starts as a slow build... oft-mentioned Radiohead. Who pines for the days of Pablo Honey? Exactly. Maybe the band did make some mistakes due to "suggestions" by people whose opinion they valued at the label or in management, but it didn't hinder Room Noises much. I was there when the new Telescope Eyes was recorded, and it wasn't a room full of suits praising the new, faster, hipper song that would make them some sweet bank, it was a band gnashing their teeth to try to get the song right to their ears, and they ended up getting it to sound pretty great. They might regret it now, but as a fan I don't, I think the new one sounds a lot better, and why are we stuck on Telescope Eyes so much anyway? Both versions exist. One's on Room Noises, and one's on an EP that's 2 years older than Room Noises. Anyway, I'm probably rambling, but the point is that the new album is coming out soon and will set your ears on fire in a fiery... heat. Also Eisley always were and will continue to be an amazing live band, which I count as the gold standard for quality in musicians, as opposed to albums. Which can also be masterpieces in their own right, but it's not often you see a band whose first album was a masterpiece that didn't disappoint the second time around. It works a lot more like Radiohead's album progression, which is what I hope and suspect Eisley will live up to in their own right. _________________ |
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003 | Posts: 1088 | Location: Somerville, MA
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