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 Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:23 am 
I can't wait to comment on this thread, I'm busy gathering info right now _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:26 am
here's some interesting information about the WMDs ...An al-Qaeda cell linked to Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi (currently hiding out in Iraq), recently planned to set off simultaneous chemical weapon attacks in Jordan which might have killed up to 20,000 people. It might have been the worst terrorist attack ever, had it not been foiled by Jordanian officials before the plot could be carried out. One of the attack points was to have been the US embassy in Amman; the rest were public and government buildings. Where did these would-be bombers come from? Where did they get their chemical weapons? According to Jordan... from our old friend, Syria. But how did Syria get chemical weapons? During the last few months leading up to the Iraq war, some of Saddam's arsenal of WMDs was apparently being shipped across the Syrian border for safe-keeping. The Israelis believed that the bulk of it kept going, to be buried in Lebanon's Beka'a Valley, under Hezbollah control. Now, our intelligence sources can disclose exclusively that the relocation of Iraq’s WMD systems took place between January 10 and March 10 and was completed just 10 days before the US-led offensive was launched against Iraq. The banned arsenal, hauled in giant tankers from Iraq to Syria and from there to the Bekaa Valley under Syrian special forces and military intelligence escort, was discharged into pits 6-8 meters across and 25-35 meters deep dug by Syrian army engineers. They were sealed and planted over with new seedlings. Nonetheless, their location is known and detectable with the right instruments. Our sources have learned that Syria was paid about $35 million to make Saddam Hussein’s forbidden weapons disappear. The first part of this report matches what David Kay learned after spending several months in Iraq searching for the whereabouts of Saddam's arsenal. "We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved." The report was further corroborated by CIA satellite photos showing fleets of trucks moving from Iraq to Syria during February and March 2003. A Syrian journalist named Nizar Nayuf defected to the West in January 2004. He claimed to know of three locations in Syria where Saddam's WMDs were buried in February 2003. US officials have repeatedly warned Syria that their covert support of the terrorists in Iraq will not be tolerated. Syria has consistently worked against the Coalition and against the formation of a new democracy in Iraq. They provided safe haven for former members of Saddam's regime and have probably been hiding Saddam's WMD arsenal all along. If Bashar Assad has allowed terrorists to acquire some of it, things will go very badly for him... and in the very near future. _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:32 am
Here's some of my rationale for not voting for Kerry, Exposing John Kerry Part One: Kerry’s Mythical View of the World President Bush and Senator Kerry have differing views of the world, and drastic differences when it comes to America’s role in the world. Now I am going to use materials for Senator Kerry’s website, www.johnkerry.com, to expose the flaws in his views on American foreign policy. Senator Kerry’s foreign policy is based on ten priorities, which I will examine. As his first priority, Senator Kerry wants to promote American Security in the 21st Century. We all want to promote the security of America, but Senator Kerry wants to use measures that will undermine American security and sovereignty. Senator Kerry wants to introduce a “… broad new vision for American foreign policy, a progressive internationalism designed to address the challenges we face in promoting America’s security interests while leading the world in the 21st Century” For everyone who speaks English, Senator Kerry wants to have unelected international organizations determine the security of America instead of the officials who the American people elect. The largest international organization of them all, the United Nations, is one of the greatest threats to American security because of its constant support of oppression around the world. President Bush is willing act alone when it comes to the security of America, but Senator Kerry will wait for the approval of America’s enemies to defend our nation and allies. In priorities two and three, Senator Kerry discusses his plans for Afghanistan and Iraq. Again the Senator shows his obsession with internationalism, and his flawed logic. He notes that the United States formed a coalition in Afghanistan, but he blasts the President for not forming an international coalition in Iraq. Senator Kerry is ignoring the fact that the vast majority of NATO members have forces in Iraq, and that the “Coalition of the Willing” has over thirty members. How many members does the coalition need for Senator Kerry to be happy or will he be happy only if the United Nations takes control of the mission? Priority four for Senator Kerry is “Working for Peace in the Middle East and Security for Israel.” Senator Kerry states that “forging a stable and lasting peace in the Middle East is vital to American national security, to the security of Israel and countries in the region, and to the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a viable Palestinian state,” but his actions differ from this statement. First, Senator Kerry has opposed measures vital to Israeli security such as the construction of the security wall along Israel’s border with the Palestinian territories, and the delivering of justice to the “spiritual” leader of Hamas, Ahmed Yassin via three Hellfire missiles. Further, Senator Kerry states that “… the Israeli government must be prepared to respond with steps to alleviate hardships on the Palestinian people.” Senator Kerry is wrong again because he is putting the burden on Israel instead of making the Palestinians responsible for their actions. In the past, Senator Kerry has supported a plan that required Israel to pay Palestinians that lost their land in the 1948 War of Israel Independence, which was started by the Palestinians and their Arab allies in an eight on one attack on the Jewish state. In priority five, the Senator states that he is “..committed to giving members of our armed forces the support they need…,” but this statement is contradictory to his voting record because over the last twenty years in the Senate, he has voted consistently to cut defense expenditures, which are proving vital to the Global War on Terrorism. Included in his various cuts was the M8 Armored Gun System, which he supported eliminating from the Army budget in the 1990’s. When the 173rd Airborne Brigade parachuted into Northern Iraq last year, it lacked the firepower that the M8 AGS would have provided. Luckily the soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade was able to capture an Iraqi airfield so tanks could be flown in, but Senator Kerry left them vulnerable. Priority six for Senator Kerry is “Promoting Democracy and Respect for Human Rights.” Senator Kerry I admit has sponsored legislation that prevented arms sales to nations who don’t protect human rights, which I commend him on, but he failed to lead the charge against ethnic cleansing around the world in places such as Iraq, Rwanda, and the Congo. With priorities seven and ten, the Senator states the need to fight HIV/AIDS around the world. Senator Kerry wants to pump more money into fighting AIDS around the world, but why shouldn’t we pump more money into diseases that kills more Americans such as cancer or obesity. I commend the Senator for fighting AIDS, but wouldn’t this money be better spent delivering justice to evil dictators around the world? Senator Kerry in priority eight describes how he “… has been an outspoken proponent of the arms control and non-proliferation measures in the Senate.” When it comes to arms controls, Senator Kerry is willing to hold back the United States military from developing the next generation of nuclear weapons. These new weapons would be smaller and able to strike the deepest underground facilities housing terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. In his ninth priority, the Senator states that he wants to “Increase America’s Energy Security.” Senator Kerry states that he wants to end our dependence on foreign oil by conserving and promoting alternative energy sources, but his plan fails to deal with the present. Senator Kerry has been a zealous opponent of allowing drilling in ANWR, which would relieve our dependence on foreign oil today. Again Senator Kerry uses the soft approach to dealing with international problems. The Senator’s priorities may sound noble, but they are a cracked façade that will endanger America. Further the most important flaw in his policies is what is missing. In his foreign policy statement, he fails to mention what he would do with Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Hezbollah and Syria to just mention a few. _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:40 am
Quote: That's really my thoughts on the situation. Taking over an Arab country, even if we are "liberating" them is really just like hitting a hornets next with a stick, it's going to piss some people off. And the people that it pisses off are the kind of people that fly planes into buildings. So in a way, we are really working against our initial purpose when it comes to Iraq. yeah... i'm probably a little left of right and vice versa on this whole thing, but this quote strikes me as naive. we may as well say: "cracking down on gang crime? don't you know these are the types of people that will carjack you? let's not piss them off!" "stick up for a woman who's being mugged? good heavens! do YOU want to get mugged?" "if we stop con artists from conning old people, guess who's next?!?" it's fearmongering, and it's exactly what the terrorists want. they want us to cower in fear of them. and while i'm certainly no "fan" of war for the sake of war, and i think in this case, it's yet to be determined if we were right or wrong, this reasoning for NOT going into war is by far the least valid. IF (and it's still an if, in my opinion) it's the right thing to do, fear shouldn't ever keep us from doing it- that's not just in this situation... that's life in general... _________________ -Levi http://www.leviweaver.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:44 am
true, this country makes too many decisions based on fear alone. Is the best decision to just wait until something else like 9/11 happens again. I too am not for war, but I think it can be justified. _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:55 am
great posts ambientgecko here is a quote about war I find interesting "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) _________________ If you wanna go on a picnic, I'll bring the watermelon. |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:56 am
i like that quote... I hope to write more if I feel the need. _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:00 am
manchilds wrote: great posts ambientgecko
here is a quote about war I find interesting "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873) wow. i would leave it at that, but one-word posts have been decried and i wanted to voice my *nod* and lean backwards in my chair. that was like 150 years ago, too... was the postmodern mindset of "right is only right if it's right for you" starting to make its way into society even then? hm... _________________ -Levi http://www.leviweaver.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:04 am
everyone knows that whatever feels good for you is ok, duh. morals and common sense don't matter as long as everyone is happy, even if it's only temporary. man you guys, wake up and smell the liberal air around you.  _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:00 am
ef wrote: last choice he had? okay, i'm probably about to sound like an idiot here, but what all evidence of WMD did the pres have before we went to Iraq? to answer that (although i realize they just found this recently): potato wrote: anyone else here about the 24 americans in iraq that got pulled out to germany because they were exposed to spent uranium in iraq! that's freakin scary!
what sucks is it was only on abc and only twice because no one wants to admit that bush was right about the existence of weapons in iraq! RIDICULOUS I SAY! well anyway, continue voting... squirly wrote: i dont think economy doing good at all, bush has us at an all-time high of debt. we're doign bad,, education is suffering,, in california its at its worst. the budget here is crap. massive teacher lay-offs and paycuts. new book, forget about that.... we are currently experiencing the largest economic growth we've had in like 20 years. on an unrelated note: the recession we've been pulling out of began before clinton left office...so don't blame bush for starting it, oh and 9/11 didn't help much... manchilds wrote: the terrorists HATE america, they hate us no matter what we do or did. going over there and attacking them isn't going to make them hate us more, becuase they hated us anyways. the only thing waiting around would do is let their numbers grow. and yes there are terrorists in syria and iran too, and bush(who has been pretty much true to his word) claims that this is a war on terror. so we will deal with them....yet if Kerry gets in the office he would hig tail it out as fast as he could. this is why i'm sad that spain gave into iraq's demands and pulled their troops out. i wonder how they'll feel when one of their trains gets bombed again. _________________ www.myspace.com/neilcorbett |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:33 am
yeah, i voted republican. _________________ ENOUGH SAID!! |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:23 am
ambientgecko wrote: Here's some of my rationale for not voting for Kerry,
Exposing John Kerry Part One: Kerry’s Mythical View of the World President Bush and Senator Kerry have differing views of the world, and drastic differences when it comes to America’s role in the world. Now I am going to use materials for Senator Kerry’s website, www.johnkerry.com, to expose the flaws in his views on American foreign policy. Senator Kerry’s foreign policy is based on ten priorities, which I will examine. As his first priority, Senator Kerry wants to promote American Security in the 21st Century. We all want to promote the security of America, but Senator Kerry wants to use measures that will undermine American security and sovereignty. Senator Kerry wants to introduce a “… broad new vision for American foreign policy, a progressive internationalism designed to address the challenges we face in promoting America’s security interests while leading the world in the 21st Century” For everyone who speaks English, Senator Kerry wants to have unelected international organizations determine the security of America instead of the officials who the American people elect. The largest international organization of them all, the United Nations, is one of the greatest threats to American security because of its constant support of oppression around the world. President Bush is willing act alone when it comes to the security of America, but Senator Kerry will wait for the approval of America’s enemies to defend our nation and allies. In priorities two and three, Senator Kerry discusses his plans for Afghanistan and Iraq. Again the Senator shows his obsession with internationalism, and his flawed logic. He notes that the United States formed a coalition in Afghanistan, but he blasts the President for not forming an international coalition in Iraq. Senator Kerry is ignoring the fact that the vast majority of NATO members have forces in Iraq, and that the “Coalition of the Willing” has over thirty members. How many members does the coalition need for Senator Kerry to be happy or will he be happy only if the United Nations takes control of the mission? Priority four for Senator Kerry is “Working for Peace in the Middle East and Security for Israel.” Senator Kerry states that “forging a stable and lasting peace in the Middle East is vital to American national security, to the security of Israel and countries in the region, and to the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a viable Palestinian state,” but his actions differ from this statement. First, Senator Kerry has opposed measures vital to Israeli security such as the construction of the security wall along Israel’s border with the Palestinian territories, and the delivering of justice to the “spiritual” leader of Hamas, Ahmed Yassin via three Hellfire missiles. Further, Senator Kerry states that “… the Israeli government must be prepared to respond with steps to alleviate hardships on the Palestinian people.” Senator Kerry is wrong again because he is putting the burden on Israel instead of making the Palestinians responsible for their actions. In the past, Senator Kerry has supported a plan that required Israel to pay Palestinians that lost their land in the 1948 War of Israel Independence, which was started by the Palestinians and their Arab allies in an eight on one attack on the Jewish state. In priority five, the Senator states that he is “..committed to giving members of our armed forces the support they need…,” but this statement is contradictory to his voting record because over the last twenty years in the Senate, he has voted consistently to cut defense expenditures, which are proving vital to the Global War on Terrorism. Included in his various cuts was the M8 Armored Gun System, which he supported eliminating from the Army budget in the 1990’s. When the 173rd Airborne Brigade parachuted into Northern Iraq last year, it lacked the firepower that the M8 AGS would have provided. Luckily the soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade was able to capture an Iraqi airfield so tanks could be flown in, but Senator Kerry left them vulnerable. Priority six for Senator Kerry is “Promoting Democracy and Respect for Human Rights.” Senator Kerry I admit has sponsored legislation that prevented arms sales to nations who don’t protect human rights, which I commend him on, but he failed to lead the charge against ethnic cleansing around the world in places such as Iraq, Rwanda, and the Congo. With priorities seven and ten, the Senator states the need to fight HIV/AIDS around the world. Senator Kerry wants to pump more money into fighting AIDS around the world, but why shouldn’t we pump more money into diseases that kills more Americans such as cancer or obesity. I commend the Senator for fighting AIDS, but wouldn’t this money be better spent delivering justice to evil dictators around the world? Senator Kerry in priority eight describes how he “… has been an outspoken proponent of the arms control and non-proliferation measures in the Senate.” When it comes to arms controls, Senator Kerry is willing to hold back the United States military from developing the next generation of nuclear weapons. These new weapons would be smaller and able to strike the deepest underground facilities housing terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. In his ninth priority, the Senator states that he wants to “Increase America’s Energy Security.” Senator Kerry states that he wants to end our dependence on foreign oil by conserving and promoting alternative energy sources, but his plan fails to deal with the present. Senator Kerry has been a zealous opponent of allowing drilling in ANWR, which would relieve our dependence on foreign oil today. Again Senator Kerry uses the soft approach to dealing with international problems. The Senator’s priorities may sound noble, but they are a cracked façade that will endanger America. Further the most important flaw in his policies is what is missing. In his foreign policy statement, he fails to mention what he would do with Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Hezbollah and Syria to just mention a few. Does anybody else think the person who wrote this article is manipulating Kerry's website info too?  _________________ An apt and true reply was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride. 'What thou meanest by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, whilst thou who dost it with a great fleet art styled emperor." Noam Chomsky |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:25 am
I didn't take the time to read it. 
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:25 am
ambientgecko wrote: everyone knows that whatever feels good for you is ok, duh. morals and common sense don't matter as long as everyone is happy, even if it's only temporary. man you guys, wake up and smell the liberal air around you. Hm...Sarcastic....yet I still find it hard to laugh... _________________ An apt and true reply was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride. 'What thou meanest by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, whilst thou who dost it with a great fleet art styled emperor." Noam Chomsky |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:33 am
potato wrote: ef wrote: last choice he had? okay, i'm probably about to sound like an idiot here, but what all evidence of WMD did the pres have before we went to Iraq? to answer that (although i realize they just found this recently): potato wrote: anyone else here about the 24 americans in iraq that got pulled out to germany because they were exposed to spent uranium in iraq! that's freakin scary!
what sucks is it was only on abc and only twice because no one wants to admit that bush was right about the existence of weapons in iraq! RIDICULOUS I SAY! well anyway, continue voting... manchilds wrote: i dont think economy doing good at all, bush has us at an all-time high of debt. we're doign bad,, education is suffering,, in california its at its worst. the budget here is crap. massive teacher lay-offs and paycuts. new book, forget about that.... we are currently experiencing the largest economic growth we've had in like 20 years. on an unrelated note: the recession we've been pulling out of began before clinton left office...so don't blame bush for starting it, oh and 9/11 didn't help much... Quote: the terrorists HATE america, they hate us no matter what we do or did. going over there and attacking them isn't going to make them hate us more, becuase they hated us anyways. the only thing waiting around would do is let their numbers grow. and yes there are terrorists in syria and iran too, and bush(who has been pretty much true to his word) claims that this is a war on terror. so we will deal with them....yet if Kerry gets in the office he would hig tail it out as fast as he could. this is why i'm sad that spain gave into iraq's demands and pulled their troops out. i wonder how they'll feel when one of their trains gets bombed again. That is a horrible thing to say Potato...about Spain I mean, I have family there...don't say things like that or you might hurt peoples feelings... 
Besides, no matter what people say I still think this war just like MANY other wars(not only carried by the US) is injustifiable(sp?) And I liked that quote by Stuart MIll, it is true that ppl that don't feel strong about anything are miserable mediocre apathetic people. I do feel strong about something, and that is War is just a horrible thing that should never happen. Specially not now. Here we are, in the 21th century, and still killing people to solve problems. Still "fighting a war on terrorism": by doing the same thing terrorist do, unjustly killing people. When are we going to develop as an international society? I mean, seriously, not trying to sound like Miss America, I believe in Diplomacy, and I do not support this war. _________________ An apt and true reply was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride. 'What thou meanest by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, whilst thou who dost it with a great fleet art styled emperor." Noam Chomsky |
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Laughing City Forum Index -> General -> Republican or Democrat
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